sewdistracted

New Patterns, Part 1: Coats

Of course, when my sewing time is reduced to dream-time, I am all the more easily seduced by the lure of a pattern sale.  Actually I had been looking at the Vogue pattern site since my magazine came on the weekend, and have been adding things in and out of the cart depending on the time of day, my mood, and probably the amount of cloud cover in the sky.

So of course the urge to click "buy" when the sale was announced did not go unheeded.

I will start with the coats.

When I first looked through the Vogue site, I noted the new Sandra Betzina coat but thought that it was just not going to work for me.  The one piece body and sleeves, with my small upper chest but wider shoulders and bust just looked like a headache starting to happen, the photo just looked too much like a bathrobe..

But then, when I was reading the magazine there was an article by Sandra Betzina about making this coat out of Patent Leather.  That really caught my eye.

Now I love patent leather, and this coat looks fabulous.  I should have known.  Whenever I have gone to one of Sandra's sewing weeks I fall in love with the clothes she has made from her patterns, even patterns that I initially dismissed from looking at the pattern envelope or the way they were presented in the Vogue magazine.  

If I were in San Francisco this week, as I had hoped to be before further issues arose with DH's health, I would probably be looking at the original of this coat, and adding this pattern to my stack.

But I already have a red patent leather coat.  It is Valentino and fit me about 20 pounds ago.  If anything should encourage me to lose those 20 pounds it should be that coat.

And although I like the tucks at the waist, I have a Marfy pattern somewhere that has tucks, but is otherwise a much more tailored coat.  

I did not buy this pattern.  But I still like that coat. The possibility always exists that someone will sew it and post some fabulous version on the web and I will have to have it.  

But for now, I have at least managed a teeny tine modicum of restraint.

So, what coat patterns did I buy?

I don't actually object to cut-on sleeves, and this Issey Miyake pattern is just lovely.  I see they call it a jacket.  I call it a coat, but it is probably more of a lightweight coat or duster than a seriously heavy duty winter coat. Because of the princess seams and the gussets this will be much easier to fit and probably a lot of fun to sew as well

I would love the long version of this coat in a nice wool crepe.  The short version would be nice in lightweight double knit and I also think I can also seeing it transitioning away in a nice linen crepe I have hidden somewhere in the stash.

Although I think the Koos van den Akker coat made with the slashed fleece is very interesting, I am not at all sure that I would be making this coat as it is shown.  Well I might if I found just the absolutely perfect piece of fleece.

But I am actually attracted to the coat for the basic shape.  When I get back on track with my coat sew along, I am planning on making a coat with a long wrap or shawl collar, much like the one in this pattern.  I was not planning on raglan sleeves, but I think the basic shape of this coat is a classic, and one I am sure to use at some time or another.  I also wondered if the fact that the pattern was designed for fleece might be useful for my fused wool yarn fabric.  I am really not yet certain about the characteristics of this fabric or if it will prove to be difficult to ease.  

So this coat went in my basket and is on its way to me now.    I also have a kind of a muted mulberry/mauve fake fur with a suede like backing which might work for this coat.  Or would that be just too much purple fur?  Perhaps I had better think about that a little further.

Then I succumbed to these two patterns; obviously they are variations on a theme.

I chose the vogue pattern for more than the coat. I like the little top and skirt as well, but primarily I am attracted the the coat.  It has problems, namely that I would look like a shapeless big bubble in it.  I  absolutely do not like the view with the collar buttoned up around the neck.  I think it looks terrible around the shoulders and upper chest.  But I love the view of the collar with the funnel neckline folded down.  I know it is not practical.  The cold winter wind would blow right down the front of that coat. But it does provide an opportunity for wearing a fabulous shawl or scarf, or it can be made in a lighter weight fabric for those fall days when you need a bit of a light coat but don't need to be out battling sub-zero winds.  This pattern actually calls for a lighter fabric and anything too stiff would defeat that nice shape of the folded back collar.

The McCalls pattern is somewhat similar, and looks better through the shoulders and collar than the Vogue.  If I wanted a buttoned up collar, this is the one I would go for.   It doesn't have that "my breasts have become an extension of my chin" look that the Vogue coat seems to promote.  Because the collar is a separate piece, it gives you more opportunity to fit the coat to the body.  I also like the idea that there are front seams in this coat, with inseam pockets.  This gives far more fitting options.    

I could probably just take the Vogue pattern and add the front seams.  But with the sale price it seems so much more interesting and yes, fun, to compare the patterns and play with them.

I've Got Mail

And it looks like something to savor slowly:

Ooh la la! Fall fashion magazines.  The dresses on the cover of both the Vogue and the Town and Country are fabulous.  I haven't really looked at the fall fashion shows yet, not even the couture.  And if these dresses are any indication of what I will find I should start looking.

The Vogue patterns magazine also came filled with ideas for fall sewing.  It also reminds me that I haven't looked at the newest batch of patterns on the website.

I will take a look at those this weekend.  It will be weeks yet before they wend their way into the pattern drawers at my local Joann Fabrics.

Not that I am really ready for fall sewing yet.  I do still want to work on that taupe collection that did not materialize as a June capsule.  There is still lots of time to wear it.  And I am woefully behind on my coat(s) as well.

A new Patrones also arrived and I was very disappointed to see that it is soaking wet and the pages are sticking together.  It was, as usual, wrapped in a plastic bag.  The bag was dry on the outside and wet on the inside.  I wonder what happened.  The pattern looks OK but the line drawing pages are a mess.  I need to look more closely and trace off anything I might want before it becomes completely illegible. Luckily, at first glance, there is really not that much in this issue I am interested in -- all summer things, and I have many far more interesting summer things filling my dreams.

So there is lots of fodder for dreams and wishes and even some creative pursuits here.  But I have no trouble storing up dreams.  There are so many inspiring ideas.  And already I am looking at some fabrics that are on the shelf and looking at them in a different way.  Dreams and wishes. You will be reading more about them soon.

I love it, but will I regret it next week?

I did not realize until late yesterday afternoon that the photo on my last post was indicative of the degree of incoherence that would be found in my prose.  When I read my own post the next day, with the attention of posting again, my first urge was to do so serious editing.  Then I felt that I should really just delete the whole thing and start over.  But I hate to do that.  Better to walk away.  Better to leave it up with a pointed reminder to myself:  "don't do this" or "the dangers of writing on the verge of exhaustion".

Of course I do tend to ramble on in a barely coherent fashion when I am talking, so at least I passed the "write the way you speak" test.

Or perhaps there is some common thread between my writing and my clothing choices:  I have  a great deal of trouble editing.

Yesterday I intended to write about this outfit.  The top is a dress I bought from Eileen Fisher after reading this post by Une Femme. I remembered that I wanted some long graceful tops and was having trouble finding something.  It would really have to be at least 32" to cover my butt, and I remember Sandra Betzina saying that I should wear 35" long jackets.  I saw this dress.  I have a few Eileen Fisher pieces, but not many.  Most of them do not flatter; the pants are mostly too short. But I figured that UPS is my friend, and it could always be sent back.  Besides I would rather try something I can send back with little effort than spend precious time making something I wasn't sure I would like.

When I first put it together I liked it, but I had doubts. I wondered if the dress over the pants was too "hippy dippy? Perhaps it is bordering on some kind of "middle-aged tunic-wearing, I've put on a few pounds so I'll just add a couple of long scarves and give up" kind of look?

But I like the wide low neckline with the necklace.  I like the long soft flowing length. The fabric is light and quite cool on a hot day. The way the dress kind of floated a bit when I walked made me smile and feel pretty. And I like this length (35") on me over pants.  I was quite comfortable and happy in the outfit all day.

I realize the cotton/lycra pants are a little stiff, and it might look nicer with narrow silk or a very light wool. Or would that be too much float and flow, heading me into Bea Arthur in the Golden Girls territory?  If I make softer pants will I regret it?  Is it worth the effort?  Am I going to look at this photo next week or even next year and think "what was I thinking".  Will I look back and say "the long downward slide started there, with that outfit, I can see it now".

I admit that have always defining my style.  I know what it isn't more than what it is.  My clothing choices are probably mostly boring, but I do like things that were more ethnic, sometimes artistic, sometimes dramatic:  I like unusual jewelry, ethnic pieces but also spare modern pieces, big cuffs.  I like cowboy boots.  I also like Manolos.  

I love elegant clothes and beautiful fabrics. But I don't really feel I can pull off the full-blown polished classically elegant look. Perhaps it is the hair, which always does its own thing.  Truthfully I like letting the hair do its own thing, I find it more appealing than perfect polish.  I suppose my penchant for flippy hair and sitting on the floor do not quite go with the elegant socialite look.

I love long skirts and bright bright colors.  I love ethnic prints.  I also hate the full blown gypsy-boho-artistic look on me although I can admire it on others.  

But I don't always manage to mix the pieces together well. What I think looks like a bit of incongruence looks to others like a mistake.  And I am not confident enough to quell that inner demon. Perhaps I have just reached a point where I am tired of making boring choices.  Perhaps I am tired of letting what I think other people want me to be shape what I wear.  But at the same time, I am not quite ready to embrace the inner me without some concession to how I appear to the world and some concession to those inner demons.  Perhaps it is just time for me to come out of the sartorial closet and play.

 

Still working

Here I am looking tired, still setting up the new computer and running the old computer on the cutting table.  It is taking longer than I had hoped, not that I should be surprised at this point in my life, although the task is not so much difficult as time consuming, especially as I want to sort through stuff as I transfer.  Computers, like houses tend to fill with stuff.

The old computer keeps shutting down on me, one of the frustrating issues that prompted me to get a new computer in the first place, and that prolongs the process.  Today also we have had several thunderstorms and about 3 inches of rain.  It hasn't broken the heat any but the power has flickered on and off and I have lost the internet connection a couple of times.

Linking directly to the old computer was becoming too problematic so I am transferring the data from an internet back-up but the last batch of data hasn't arrived.  I don't remember if I actually sent it, or just got everything lined up and meant to click send but didn't either due to an interruption or absent-mindedness. It is also possible that I accidently clicked on the restore to CD option rather than the "restore to download" option.  Silly me.    I also did not think to order a copy of Adobe photoshop until after I set up the computer so I am waiting for that as well, but things are progressing.  Of course some data requires manual conversion from PC to Mac format as well. Actually I am enjoying this enough that I wonder why I didn't do it sooner.  Of course, for a long time Apple was pretty much a dirty word in this community which revolved around IBM.

I haven't spent all my spare time at the computer.  I did shorten three new pairs of pants for DH and it was so nice to just sit in a chair and lose myself in the rhythm of the hand stitches.  Even though I might prefer to make something new for myself, I can really enjoy just sitting down and listening to a piece of music and hemming.  Frankly it made me happy to see that my newly serged edges and hand hems looked much better than the original ones that came on the pants -- not that it is at all important, or that anyone will ever know but me.  

Since I am also interruptible when hemming, I was able to get all three pieces done, whereas I don't think I would have had such a long stretch of time in the sewing room.  Don't think that means I am going to get better at doing the mending though:  there is still a huge stack, and I would rather just make new, unless it is a favorite garment.

I've been thinking about clothes and summer shoes, and not just because Materfamilias happened to post about sandals today.  I have been thinking about the occasional post about shoes or what I am wearing or just what I am thinking about clothes and style as that also all channels into what I sew (and knit) as well. I find that I am have been getting more and more interested in clothes again, perhaps partly because I am either more confident (ha!) or just more willing to experiment with what I like with less concern about what other people think about my choices.   I have been collecting more and more inspiration photos, and in doing so, and looking at clothing websites, I am also realizing that I am just not interested in making all my own clothes.  I will still shop. People do things that I would never think of, and if I can find something that I like and looks good on me and fits (a lot of ifs, I know) I have no problem buying.  And of course shoes are easy, because I am not going to make them anyway.

So today, even though I was home all day, I am just the kind of person who has to feel a little pulled together and ready to answer the door when FedEx comes or I need to run out to the Post Office.  But since it was a casual day, I am just wearing  a white tee and periwinkle cotton knit pants.  

I actually made these pants in 2005 and this is an old photo.  I don't have Photoshop up on the computer and can't figure out how to crop out the part of the picture I don't want, and things are too piled up to get a decent new picture, so this will just have to do.  They have held up really well, look practically like new, except for perhaps a little fraying at the bottom of the hem.  So I guess it does pay to buy or make clothes out of good quality fabrics.  Even though these are cotton kni they don't sag or bag and look just as nice as they did in that photo.

But of course, I had on accessories as well. The scarf is one of the first scarves I ever bought myself.  I picked it up at a craft fair soon after I graduated from college.  The silk is rather light and delicate and it has been hand painted,  The colors seem perfect for so many summer things, and the weight is just right for the warm weather, so it remains a favorite.  I actually don't wear it all that often anymore, but when it do wear it, nothing else seems to quite work as well.

And yes there were shoes.  I wore one of my current favorite pairs of casual, flat sandals.  I bought these last summer from Thierry Rabotin.

I actually had qualms about white sandals.  I hadn't owned a pair for several years.  But DH thought the shoes were very graceful, and they are.  Since they are also very comfortable  and go with so much, I am glad that he encouraged me to buy them. As you can see, they have had their share of wear.

Bittersweet

I have actually finished altering the skirt.  It took less than an hour, as anticipated, although that hour was spread out over several days.  As I result I did not update you about progress and accomplishments either simply because the available time came down to doing something, no matter how minute, or writing about it. Doing won.

Saturday was my 50th birthday and it was somewhat bittersweet.  I am not saying the day wasn't lovely, and that I am at all unhappy about turning 50, as I am not.  But just that life is rather complicated at the moment and the complexities of life spilled over somewhat into the birthday celebrations.

There was a wonderful party at my knitting group, which was actually something of a surprise because I totally did not expect it.  There was dinner and dancing and a trip to Bard College to see a Mark Morris production of the original Prokofiev score to Romeo and Juliet (yes it does have a happy ending) and the music was just as lovely but also somehow more discordant than in the piece more frequently performed. There was dinner at our favorite restaurant.

There were gifts:  a new computer from which I am typing now, and which is not completely set up.  I am migrating from PC to Apple and I don't have the data moved over yet,  At the moment the new computer is on my desk and the old computer is running on the cutting table; all the sewing machines are disconnected, at least until I am sure I have everything transferred and running on the new machine, some things with new programs as well.  I love the apple but there is a bit of learning to do. My time remains scattered and piecemeal; unfortunately my mental functioning is often as scattered as my time.

I don't know how to edit photos and haven't gotten a mac version of Photoshop or whatever the equivalent will be.  So there is much to learn.  With the new computer comes an Ipod Touch, which I also haven't set up yet.  And DH, bless his soul, also managed to throw in a special gift, the kind that comes in a blue velvet lined box..

But things still move very slowly around here.  

My hoped for sewing time did not appear except in small bits and snatches, as described above, since it took me three days to get a one-hour job done.  And then I messed it up.  The distractions were constant, my mind somewhat scattered, and I forgot to sew the lining in place when I put the waistband back on the skirt,  I am not going to rip it out again.  I will just turn the lining into a slip.... but obviously there are other things to work on too.

And I haven't even started my coat muslin.

In the meantime, DH, is spiraling more and more deeply into confusion.  We see a neurologist on Friday and I although I don't expect answers that day, I am finding myself needing some kind of answers so that I can know and prepare for whatever may be next.  I dearly hope that the tide of these developments can be stemmed by modern medicine, but I am also preparing myself for the idea that this might not be the case. And although I want, and even need to keep sewing, I do mourn the fact that it may be some time before I am once again able to lose myself in the process of sewing. There will be sewing, but progress may be as scattered and unpredictable as my life right now. 

I am beginning to refer to DH as "the confused one", not really in a bad way, but as a coping mechanism and a way of separating the person who is increasingly unable to do simple tasks by himself, who doesn't understand so many things, who needs to be entertained, who can't follow simple instructions and even conversations, who needs constant help and supervision, from the other person, my beloved DH, so that I don't lose track of the warm, witty, loving, funny, kind person I married.

So while I have been working on the computer, too slowly also, I have also done some more "materials management" about which I will hope to get you updated, as well as some shopping at Gorgeous Fabrics, and some thinking about other alterations, plans, new garments and ways of working with my wardrobe. 

It was the Shoes

Remember this skirt??

I made it in 2006 and it has been one of my favorite summer skirts ever since.  I made the sweater too so together they make one of my favorite outfits.  No comments on sweater fit allowed, this sweater has seen many years of expansion and reduction and it is till in my closet.  That is enough.

But it is the skirt I am writing about today.

Since I made that skirt I have lost some weight, mostly through the rib cage and waist with the result that the skirt is currently about 3 1/2 inches too big in the waist and it falls down on my hips.

This means that the length also falls to about mid calf, not the most flattering place.  It has been like this for about a month, but lazy me, I figured with heels I could get away with it, and I just didn't want to be bothered.

But if the skirt falls low on the hip, the sweater shown in this photo becomes too short.  As I approach my 50th birthday it seems that having a bit of tummy peeking out between my skirt and my top is not a desirable look. 

And the extra length on my legs makes my already short legs look shorter and the long torso look even longer.  Not a particularly flattering look.  What is the point of being tall if you still look like you have short dumpy legs?

This particular image was brought home to me on Monday, when I decided to wear this skirt with a new pair of shoes I had just picked up on sale for a really, really good price.

I love, love, love these wine patent flats. Yes, I said flats.  Loaboutin flats.  They look really cute with the above skirt, if I hike the skirt up to just below my bra so that it actually hangs at the right length.

I wore the skirt anyway on Monday, and when I got home, I resolved to fix it.  After a skirt that is a flattering length will good look with flats and heels.  So I took the waistband off, resolving to alter the skirt.  I don't want to take it in at the side seams because I don't want to redo the zipper.  There are twelve pleats in this skirt so it will be easy just to make each pleat just a tad deeper, thereby shrinking the skirt through the waist and high hip, but maintaining that nice billowy fullness through the body, which looks good still. 

It took me over an hour to get the waistband taken apart without ripping the lining though.   It has been sitting at my sewing table ever since.  Tuesday there was no time.  Wednesday I hoped to get to it but I needed to work on something that was easily interrupted and not in my sewing room, so knitting won the project war.

Today, it is not likely.  I will be out from around 1PM until after 10, and I am already stealing time from my to-do list to post this.

Perhaps this weekend.  Although I also have to take down the current computer and set up a new one, transfer all the data, and convert a few things to run on new programs.  It ***should not*** take all that long.  But you never know.

And by the way, it strikes me as really, really funny, that right after I write a comment on Gigi's Blog stating that I don't like wearing peep-toe shoes because I won't wear hose with them and I don't like the feeling of all that leather around my feet without hose (sandals and canvas shoes are no problem), I go out and buy a pair of peep-toe patent leather shoes and wear them all day for a couple of days without hose and love them.  I guess even I can be knocked out of my fuddy-duddy ideas.

Go figure.  Never say never.

Organizing the Pressing Tools

OK, I sewed napkins last week.  And I spent some time avoiding sewing.  I really need to break this habit.

I also spent some time moving piles of things around the sewing room so I can work.  I really can't work like this, that much I know.  I want to finish the sewing room.  I got it 3/4 done a few years ago, life took a couple of sharp turns and I never finished.  I did let things pile up waiting until I finished.

I have been working on the piles though.  They have been greatly reduced and moved out of the way and sorted in ways that I can work on them a little bit each day and finish, probably even before fall (yeah!!)

I also needed some shelves.  I had planed to put a narrow shelf above the ironing board, and above the window for little used items, but never did.  The shelves I originally wanted don't seem to be available anymore, and I didn't want to spend time dealing with making something just right. So I found something that worked and they arrived Friday.

The high shelves are for a few pressing tools that I don't use every day, but still need to have around for those times when they are needed.  I also have a few other things used for specific tasks that aren't regular day-to-day projects.

I wanted shelves that had invisible mounts because I don't  really have room to put brackets up on the top and still room to put things on the shelves due to the window frames.  To get the length I had to put up a series of short shelves.  Someday, when I am feeling ambitious and have nothing better to do, I might make a custom sized shelf and just drill the holes to use these brackets, now that I have them.

On the far right the white roll on the top, way up by the beam is a piece of PVC plumbing pipe that I use when felting.  Below it, on the shelf is a roll of  "soil separator paper" that I got once for trying pattern alterations and muslins.  I learned that I prefer actual muslin because I can't see the marks on this stuff, but there are times, when I am making multiple copies of something to work out a detail, that it is convenient, so I am keeping it around.

Here's the south wall showing the shelves above and below the window.  The blurry white thing on top is my flash reflecting off the soil separator paper.  The shelf above the ironing board is narrow (4 inches) and just perfect for holding the things I use all the time.  The sleeve board is hidden in a slot right behind the cutting table next to the iron, easily reachable but out of sight..

Now all my sewing tools are off the floor, where I was always tripping over them, and some things that were piled up on a bookshelf are properly stowed so I can get the books off the shelf.  I am running out of excuses for not sewing.  This is good. 

But to make sure I do something I am going to have to give a regular accounting.  If I feel I have to write, I will also feel I have to have something to write about, rather than just the random musings in my head.

Sewing Time

I've been suffering from Restless Mind Syndrome of late and so the sewing got put on hold for a bit.  Everything  is still on the queue but the schedule has been shifted around. The external bits of my life have been a bit chaotic of late, and although I don't think of myself as being particularly regulated in my interior life, I cannot really settle down into a more creative mindset with too much is out of order.

I realize of course that any kind of creative activity needs to be practiced regularly, and I think that has been my goal. I don't want to run into the sewing room, lock the door, and finish a bunch of stuff in a rush then have to walk away for an extended period of time.  I want to make regular sewing time.  And I have come to accept that I am the kind of person who cannot really shut the door on the external part of my life and ignore it completely.  There has to a certain orderliness to the structure of life so that I can feel free to explore the inner creative instinct.  I am constantly trying to regulate that outer need for structure, with that inner more intuitive bit that my sewing taps into. 

So I am trying to expand the time devoted to creative pursuits.   I am knitting regularly, every day, and have been petty productive, even though some projects have been ripped.  But it wasn't really until the latter half of last week that I began finding daily time in the sewing room and it frankly has not been enough.  Still, the fact that I am there is good, and eventually this slow trickle will expand into a bigger stream.

What I have been doing has not been particularly blog-worthy, however.  I need clothes to wear now.  And so I have been involved in some of the more boring chores that sometimes fall on those of us who can wield a needle and thread, namely mending and alterations.  I have taken in several things that were too large to wear. If I were reconfiguring or refashioning something interesting, like a Chanel Jacket or a beautiful garment, I would share the process. But taking in tees so they don't hang, taking up baggy summer pants and other uninspiring tasks do not make for thrilling reading. And I suppose none of this is creative, but it is practical experience, and it is a joy just to make something work.

Of course there was the day I spent my daily hour cursing under my breath at a stack of J Crew tees that had all come undone where the neck band joins the body of the shirt.  They had not been worn that heavily, it was purely sloppy workmanship, and it really annoyed me.  Each top took less than a minute to serge back together.  But it took substantially longer than that to re-thread the serger with different colors of thread between shirts.  I should have known better.  I have complained about this company's merchandise before so I should have known better.  But I fell in love with certain colors in a flattering style that is long enough that my tummy doesn't show above the tops of my Jeans.

It might be easy to buy tees, but not so easy, apparently, to by perfect tees.  All the more reason to spend more time in that sewing room.

Coat, the Second

Although I have hopes for making more than one coat this year, there are, in fact, only two coats in the queue for this summer. 

The second coat belongs to the collection of taupe fabrics that will be used for the JCC.  This collection was always bigger than just four garments, and it has continued to evolve.  But one of the original fabrics, in fact the core fabric about which I built this entire collection is a taupe colored lightweight Italian rainwear fabric.

As soon as I saw this coat in the December Patrones, I knew I had to make it and I knew I had the perfect fabric.  Actually, I think the photo of this coat is not inspiring and does not show the coat off to advantage:

Here is the line drawing:

The fabric is a silk/polyester/nylon blend and I will be lining it with taupe silk to match. 

I probably will not get started on this before July, which is the same time as the coat sew along, but I consider it to be rather in addition to the coat sew along.  Even with two coats to work on, I hope to have this done before the fall rainy season.

No More Knitting

I have reopened my knitting blog, PurlsandMurmurs.  This combination of knitting and sewing just isn't working for me.  Somehow I feel like I can't babble on as much as I would like with everything in one place. 

Despite the fact that I have just been reading in the new Atlantic Monthly about how the Internet has shortened our attention span so that no one will read more than a couple of paragraphs, I still feel the need to go on an on.  I read a lot.  I love reading long thoughtful blog posts when other people, who actually write well, post them.  I still enjoy throwing out bucket loads full of mindless twaddle.  And so I shall.  Like my library and my books are an extension of my memory, and external hard drive of sorts, so too are these blogs. And I need them to make some sense of the jumble of my thoughts; they accomplish that best when they are separate.